ES
NL Lessons for only $50 hour
Introduction
I make a minimum of 3 trips a year to my favorite city. Two for our Fantasy Football league (Draft NFL opening weekend in a Cabana by Mirage pool, Spring for owners meeting – complete boondoggle.) After retiring from retail a couple years ago I have started teaching to pay for my poor poker playing.
To celebrate the end of summer last year I came to Vegas to see end of WSP and had so much fun I decided to return this year.
To put this recap in perspective it is helpful to know that I play limit poker here in AZ. My No limit experience is exclusively tournament play. The teacher in me advocates ‘life long learning’ so I set a goal to experience some No Limit cash games this trip.
Tuesday July 14
Plane touches down at 9am, grab a cab and I’m walking into the Mirage at 9:30am. (I always stay at the Mirage and will post my specific comments on the forum page.) Lines at the check in counter so head to the Poker Room where two regulars, Fred & Bob, are begging everyone who enters to help start a 3/6 limit game. I recognize them from past trips – but if I didn’t, they had their names taped to their personal coffee mugs to help me identify them. By 9:50 cards are in the air, I’m in my comfort zone. Good friendly table, half locals and half tourists, kept entertained by Fred & Bob. I’m just putting in time to earn my comp while waiting to check in. About 11am go to counter and use $20 trick to upgrade to Tower Deluxe room. Cute hostess says sure, but room is not ready would I like my $20 back. No thank-you, I don’t want the bad karma and I’m just going to be playing cards anyway. Get my 4 hrs comp time in and up $82.
After lunch and getting in to room I take the free shuttle to Rio to observe final six tables of main event. Highlight was seeing Dennis Phillips’ A, K VS. A, K knocked out by spade on river. I’ll need to watch ESPN to see if I make a cameo appearance!
Back to the Mirage and after a short nap I head down for my first ½ No Limit lesson. I played very tight to get comfortable. Table appears to be full of ‘average’ players, with one local two to my right pushing the action. Two hands I’ll comment on – first I’m down about $40 of my original $200 buy in and from the BB I call the button (short stack about $50) $10 raise w, A,5 off. Flop 10, 5, 5 (NL lesson #1-This is the type of situations you make your money in NL). Check, bet, I raise, he re-raises all in with pocket Js. Board runs out – Hey this in fun! Later I get A, A when player to my immediate right makes a larger ($20) than table normal raise. I had played with him for about an hour and noted he had played even less hands than I – he laid down hands after flops he raised when bet into. He was super tight. I re-raise $20, folded to him and he calls. Flop Q,Q,X – he makes classic tell of looking immediately down to his chips then checks (NL Lesson #2 – bet to define your hand) I’m not sure if it was this tell that made me think he had a monster or my limit experience that made me want to trap but flop went check, check. He makes small ($15) bet on blank turn, I re-raise $15 and he comes back over the top for $50 more. He might have been betting KK, but I’m very confident of my initial read and believe he had A, Q or possible Q, Q – he just gave an aura of confidence on his hand. He didn’t speak English – and didn’t show but I don’t feel bad about my lay down of pocket As, but wish I had bet pot on flop to put my read to a real test.
It was late and I was surprised the Mirage coffee shop was closed so went across the street to the Venetian / Grand Lux café. After a late night breakfast sat down at a 4/8 limit at the Venetian. Amazed that they had only two 4/8 limit games being dealt (I may be forced to lean No Limit) and had to wait about 15 minutes. The Venetian poker room is all that has been reported – but for some reason I have never won here. It looked as if this trend would continue and I kept being dealt chip savers. After about an hour of mucking I get a rush and quit up $235 after two hours.
Go back to Mirage Video Poker Bar for a ‘free’ martini and cigar before heading to bed – hit a flush and end up with two ‘free’ martini’s and $9 profit.
Wednesday July 16
I plan to watch Phx Suns in the NBA summer league. They don’t play until 5PM so after sleeping in I bus down to MGM for more ½ NL lessons. Nice room and staff – table appears a mixture of locals and experienced tourists. I recognize that I am the fish here – and plan is to play very tight until it’s time to watch Suns. (NL lesson #3 – table selection) I’m sure there’s more opportunity at night, but I’m here to learn. After an hour I’m down a little of my original $200 buy in on the BB when a new player in early position calls and maybe one other late limper and SB and me with 7, 5. Flop 7, 2, 3 rainbow. I bet $15; new player calls and all others fold. I have no read as villain has just sat down, but he appears comfortable and confident at a card table. Turn 5 clubs making two clubs and me 2pr. I bet $20, raised $20 – I re-raise $40 and villain comes back over for $100 more (NL lesson #4 – you need to be willing to risk it all) this is where I believe my tournament experience (survival) hurt me. I didn’t think he had a set but thought he might have limped with an A, 4 suited and now had a str8 or A, 7 or even AA. I made what I now look back on as my biggest regret of the trip and muck. He says he normally doesn’t show but showed one card, the A of clubs. Playing with him for about another hour he was a solid player, not overly aggressive. Other notable hand, I limp on BB w/K, Q and only button and small blind in. (There’s probable another lesson here). Flop K, K, 7 – checked around. Turn a 4, button bets $9, I just call because I see button reaching for chips and button raises to $40 w/50 behind. SB asks for the remainder count –says he’ll raise him all in – then proceeds to only put in enough chips to call. Dealer confused, says now he can’t raise because he didn’t bring out enough chips. Short discussion and player says OK. I say I’ll make it easy and push my last $140 – button calls for last $50 – SB asks me if I have 7-7? Finally mucks and says he had A, K. Button tables 4, 4 for full house, river a blank – I get $50 back and rebuy for $100 more. After two hours of play I’m down $260, but wiser for the experience. Off to lunch and then to the NBA summer league for a couple games which was a good break. Note to self – plan activities for day and play cards at night.
After shower and shave to freshen up I head to Bellagio to take a peek at WPT event. Not as nice of set up as WSP and only recognize Phil Helmuth and Freddie Deeb. Go to Poker Room and some 4/8 limit. Staff was friendlier than my past experience but room is just too crowded. BUT I get seated at the table just outside the window of Bobby’s room. Two tables going inside and I feel like I’m watching High Stakes Poker on TV. Doyle, Kathy Harman, and at least 7 others I recognize. Phil Ivey walks in at one point (this was the day he made the final 9 of WSOP). I’m inspired to play some of my best poker, but after 4 hours I’m down $100. Typical hand for me during this session. I raise from early position with A, K suited, BB and one early limper call. Flop 9 high with two of my suit, BB bets, gets raised and I re-raise – call, call. Turn blank – check, check & I check knowing at least one of them has the 9 and will call to the river. River blank – check, bet, I fold, call. Both had 9, 2nd player had Q kicker to take the pot. Time to head back to Mirage and my final NL lessons of the trip.
Played ½ NL at the Mirage for about 2 hours. Non aggressive players most of the time. I raise the typical raise ($15) late with A, Q off from seat 9; seat 1 on the button is the only caller. I can’t see him well with the dealer between us; he hasn’t really had to show many hands and has a large chip stack. Flop A, 4, 3 w/ 2 spades (I have no spades). I bet $20 he raises $20 (refer back to NL lesson #2, bet or raise to define your hand) I have not yet retained lesson #2 so fall back to my limit experience and call to see if a spade comes. Turn 4(no spade), I bet $40 and he flat calls. River 3 – I now check as a 4 or 3 beats me. Villain slowly counts out $60, I make the crying call incase he has busted flush draw. He as A, 4. (I believe there is more for me to learn here so appreciate any feedback on this hand). At about 3am, after two hours of play table is being broken and I opt to switch to 3/6 limit after having spent another $250 on my NL lessons.
Now I’m playing on my turf. Table is lively with 3 to 4 drunken buddies from KC trying to relive their fraternity days. Lots of action, best hand – I’m on the button with 4, 5 suited and call to make it a family pot. Flop A, 3, 6 rainbow. Checked to me and I bet my open ended str8 draw. All fold to the calling station to my right who to no surprise - calls. Turn a 10, he checks I bet – he keeps his reputation and we both see the river pair the 6. He checks – I’m afraid he may be trying to check raise me with the 6 to look like a hero to his buddies so I check. He turns up one card – 5 - and says he had 2, 5 for the straight draw to snap my A’s and pushes his cards forward. Dealer turns to me, I ask are his cards dead? Yes sir. I then show my busted str8 as the dealer pushes me the pot. I’m sure he will hear about that hand long after they return to KC. Ex-Frat brothers talking about racking up so I call it a night(guess I should say morning as it’s 5am) earning back $35 of my NL tuition.
Wednesday July 16
Get away day. Flight at 6:30PM so plan on using my comp $ from Mirage for a meal and spend the day playing limit in the Mirage. Although up all night I can’t sleep and go down to see my buddies Fred & Bob by 10am. They haven’t been able to get a quorum yet, so I say I’ll be at the video bar right outside the room. I order my ‘free’ Bloody Mary and light up my last cigar. Hit a flush after about 5 minutes of play, up $5 after tipping bar tender for the ‘free’ drink. Fred gives me the signal that they’re ready for me and I join the AARP meeting at the 3/6 table. Another friendly game but I’m tired and playing loose. Actually doing OK until I slow play my nut flush on the turn (when will I learn) trying to trap Bob in the middle between me and the better. River pairs the board and brings 4 cards to the str8 flush so I have to make the crying two bet call to see the str8 flush. Tilt a little and down $100 so ask for a table change. Start playing correctly and earn back all but $30 after a total of 5 hours.
After 3 days and 23 hours of poker I was -$88. At limit I was up $222 (+$13/hour), NL -$310 (-$51/hour). Had a great time, see you in September. YAtitle
Nice TR, thanks for sharing!
As for the few hands you mentioned, I'll give you my thinking although I'm far from the best strategy advisor on these boards. The hand you said you regret the most is tough. You were getting a little short of 2.5 to 1 if you called, so if there is a reasonable chance he was on a flush draw (which in hindsight there is), you have to call. With that said, he did make a fourth raise, so I think you had to believe there was a very good chance he had a straight (my guess) or possibly a set. I think the only thing I would have done differently is either called his initial reraise on the turn or pushed harder. The $40 reraise you made was into a pot that was just over $110 at that point. So having to call $40 into a ~$150 pot, he was put in a position where a push was a decent play on a flush draw. I'd probably have either just called that $20 and reassessed after the river or pushed it up more, making folding a realistic option for him, if on a flush draw.
On your other hand at the Mirage, I think you played it OK. You raised in LP with AQ and got one caller. A and rags flop, you bet 2/3 of the pot to which he min raises. I guess you could have reraised here, but top pair very good kicker isn't usually a good place to make a third raise. On the turn I may have bet a little more, maybe ~$50-60 for half of the pot and then a call/raise from him and you can feel confident that you are beat. That would have saved you a few bucks, but in my opinion, that was an unlucky hand that you were going to lose some money on.
Sounds like you had a good time, good luck on your next trip!
Good trip report.
One thing I noticed is your bet sizing. It looked like your raises were often just double the size of an opponent's bet. This might be a reflection of your limit hold'em background. Generally, a minimum sized raise is incorrect. If your hand is the better one at the moment, but the opponent has a decent draw against you, a minimum size raise almost always gives an opponent the correct odds to call. An opponent is getting at least 3 to 1 odds to make a call. You want your opponents making mistakes and calling bets when they are not getting the right odds to call. Also, when you have a hand that you think is best, you want more money going into the pot.
Generally, a minimum size raise is OK if you think your opponent has such a weak hand that this raise is the only one that will be called. It can also be used, depending on stack sizes, when you want to inexpensively suggest to an opponent that he or she may have to commit his or her entire stack to this pot if the hand is played out all the way to the river. There are probably a few other rare instances when a minimum raise makes sense.
If you are considering a raise or re-raise you want to consider, among other things, the pot size after your opponent's bet and stack sizes for you and the opponent. Usually you want to at least triple your opponent's bet, sometimes more if the opponents bet is very small when compared to the pot size.
Hope this unsolicited tip is helpful.
Great report, sounds like lots of fun.
YAtitle-
You didn't mention where in AZ you live. But if you live near Phoenix, Casino AZ no offers a $1-2 SL game, with a $250 max bet. The max buy in is $200, and very few hands reach the $250 cap, so the game is essentially 1/2 NL. However, it plays much, much tighter than 1-2 games in Vegas (still can't figure out why). So if you're looking to improve your NL skills, I would give this game a try, as the structure is similar, but it plays much smaller. Standard raises here are $8-$10, as opposed to $12-$15 at most Vegas games. Since it plays smaller and tighter, you'll have more chances to work on your game without putting too much at risk.
GL!
Thanks for the feedback, I see now that I need to adjust the size of my bets.
I live on the west side of Phoinex (Goodyear) so am a regular at Vee Quiva. I'm aware of the 1/2 game at Indian Bend, but the few times I've ventured over there I've stayed in my comfort zone. Now that I've gotten my feet wet in Vegas I plan to give it a try!
YA
I think you meant JENN Harmen in your report - Maybe confusing her with Kathy Enright? Or perhaps I'M confused....
s.i.
@timpramas
agreed! larger bet sizing makes for less difficult decisions. put the onus on your opponent! regardless sounds like you had a couple tough hands. Change your bet sizing and try again. I warn you though once you get comfy at NL you'll never want to go back to limit
Agree with the other posts - larger bts but really those were some tough ones - but as you play more you'll progress to maximizing the $ your winning hands get from your opponents and this will offset these tough ones. Seemed like you should have had a couple big pots to offset these during the 3 days. Hope you are a convert to NLH. I used to be a limit player but really got bored of it - switched to Omaha cause it was more exciting. Once you understand the mechanics of starting hands and odds Limit HE becomes pretty mechanical. The strategy and possibilities added to the game due to NL are unbelievable - I go back to limit when I have time to kill and want to protect my gains for the day (but usually opt for a NLH tourney when this is the case). I think a good analogy/comparison is 9-ball vs. 8-ball in pool . Players got so good, 8-ball became too boring and was 1 dimensional -lacked drama - 9-ball added a whole new dimension. Tennis is becoming that way due to powerful serves is too big a part of the game - Federer's WImbledon championship looked like a great match based on the score but was a boring and anti-climactic match.
Anyway not bad for a "losing" trip. I only get a once a yr trip away from the family - and Sept 16-19th is my trip. I'll write a detailed report, but me and my buddy are planning it to a tee to maximize our enjoyment and have used the resources here greatly in our planning.
Reading about vegas trips is awesome -living vicariously until my Spet. trip!!
Easystreet,
AKA Alan