ES
Solo poker trip, "I did it my way" lol PART 2
7:30 AM Wednesday, gonna try and hammer this out before sleep time, because it is a must read and I want to remember it all as accurately as possible.
Absolutely unbelievable how tonight went, read on....
After posting the last report, headed down the street to scope out the downtown scene. Walked into Binions - and right back out, this time twice as many angry looking people. That's no fun, and generally not profitable I've decided.
Walk into the Golden Nugget - Lots of action here tonight. I buy in for $120 at a 1/2 table with 2 locals, 3 first-timers, and 2 possibly seasoned tourists, but were too drunk to know what was really going on. But just drunk enough to make stupid calls. I'm loving it.
I've developed a new strategy - walk away from the table frequently. It seems like every time I do this, when I get back I am dealt an awesome hand. I continued to employ this strategy the rest of the night, and who knows why, but it worked everywhere I went. Except for the MGM, where I should have busted out completely, but that's the OMG part of the story later.
About an hour into playing at GN, I make the nuts on the flop. I have 8J off, flop comes 7 10 9 rainbow. 4 players in the hand. I bet 10, get raised to 20 and smooth call - 3 players now. I check again as the turn is a 2, no flush possibility. Player bets 30, is reraised by seasoned drunk guy to 77, I push all in for 105 more. It was nice, the guy of course had 77. I hang around for awhile, and cash out for $370, +250. There's the days losses pretty much from earlier!! I wanted to stay kinda, but felt it was time to leave as I had been up to 440, and just dwindling at this point, nobody really wanted to call my bets anymore anyways.
Walk into Fitzgeralds, room is closed. Back to Binions - no way. So I take a cab to MGM, for 17 bucks. Ask to be seated at an open 1/2 table, and am directed which table to go to. I sit down, it is full, and there are nothing but young drunks here. I'm thinking "Awesome!" Then it's starts to get all effed up, and only gets worse from here. Never, never, have I seen so many effed up things happen at one poker room.
First, as the dealer is asking me whether or not I want to buy the button, the poker room manager comes over and says "Nope, you actually missed it by one, you must move to this other table." She actually takes the cards the dealer dealt me, mucks them, gives me my chips back and tells me to move. Ummmm, ok.
The other table is 5-handed, one guy has $1000, and it does NOT look like a bunch of drunk guys at all. On top of that - I have to wait over 5 minutes to see my first hand. The floor is being called on like every single hand, the dealer is beyond the worst dealer I have ever seen (slightly thicker, sandy brown haired woman). She never hears what any player says, and makes continual incorrect assumptions resulting in floor calls for 3 out of the first 7 hands. I am so frustrated, and it turns out some of the players ARE drunk, but only in the way that slows down the entire game and makes it entirely ridiculous and no fun. Plus the super bass thumping out of the club didn't help my aggravation.
I play anyways, and figure what the hell. I'm here, right? I would've requested a table change, but we were clearly the short handed table.
Then comes the OMFG moment, that I still haven't really shaken off, many hours later.
I am holding 2 9 offsuit on a live straddle, in BB. For giggles, and because the table is moving so slowly, I complete the bet to see a flop, which comes 7 7 2. Hmmmm, I think. Continuation bet of 10 is made by someone, I call, turn brings a 2. Bet of 40 is made, folds to me, with about 75 in front. I think, can't put this player on a 7 and call. River is a Q. Player puts me all in, and I think about it for some time. I figure, he HAS to have a 7, or he wouldn't be doing it, unless it's a 2 and chop chop.
Full well expecting to lose, but feeling stupid, I call. I table my 2 9 off, and say "do you have a 7?" He exposes a 7, leaves the other card face down, and pushes the cards forward. Oh well, I tried, right? Dealer (yes the same terrible dealer) mucks his hand, and gives me all the chips. I AM NOT KIDDING YOU. All hell breaks loose at this point, but surprisingly, the floor is not called! (it was this guy's first time in vegas, he didn't know he had that option)
I am not kidding about all hell breaking loose here. Nobody can let go of this event. A third player not even involved in the hand goes to the floor 15 minutes later, and is told the wrong call was made. Now keep in mind - I agree, and even gave the player $20 cash after the end of that hand for fear of karmic retribution. But no matter what I say or do - these bad vibes remain for the next hour. Third player explains to him about calling the floor, he excuses himself from the table and talks to the floor/security guy (Mark?), convinces them to go review the videotape.
A little later, still steaming and now on tilt of course, the guy bums a cigarette off me, and I join him for the smoke. We are engaged in conversation about the whole affair, and I am consoling and in agreement with him (but not to the point of giving him the $235 lol), when another floor/security guy walks up, this one looking like that $$$ guy off the HBO series. He JOINS our conversation, and we are all talking. He is siding with the casino (policy at MGM is apparently to win ANY hand at holdem, you MUST expose 2 hole cards, period, end of story) and asks the guys why he waited an hour to raise a ruckus. I chime in, as I had been doing all along, and the security guy turns into an instant total dick and says very forcefully "EXCUSE ME SIR. WHEN I AM HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE, WE ARE TALKING. AND WHEN YOU INTERRUPT ME LIKE YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW, IT IS INCREDIBLY RUDE AND IMPOLITE" Like, the dude is just baiting me to say something, anything. When it was him who butted into our conversation in the first place! And was being rude! I of course, as soon as sensing the tone and what the guy was doing (damage control for the casino) remained completely silent, and took two big overt step backwards. He said "Thank You" as if he won the conversation, and I simply left the scene. Eff that.
I stay until about 5AM and cash in $300 on my $100 buyin, but don't exactly feel great about it.
I walk up the strip for some exercise, and stop into Bally's. One table still going, 6-handed. 5 experienced players, and one tourist there to give away as much money as possible. I sit down and watch dude reload 100 after 100 after 100, and can't grab any of it. He literally started going all in every hand ("I'm just here to gamble" he said numerous times) and lost every time. I stayed until the table broke up an hour later, and cashed $120 for my $100 buyin.
Caught the Deuce back the ole Cortez, and here I am ready for bed. Definitely interested in any comments on the MGM fiasco, as the players at that table are going to be reading this, I told them all about AVP. :)
Cheers,
Jason
interesting is all I can say...
I don't really know what else can be said.
Keep em coming!!!
Jason
Wow - exciting night.
Obviously the dealer needed work. Unfortunately (or fortunately) - the call on the hand was correct. In every room I have played in Nevada, California and Arizona, it is required for the winner of a hand to show both cards. Failure to show two cards results in a dead hand.
Now - the dealer SHOULD have prevented this by controlling the table and insisting that the winning player show both cards. No dealer I know worth their salt will not urge the player to show both cards. However, if one card is mucked the entire hand is mucked, and the other player lost at that point.
And in some defense of the dealer - many players muck their hands in exactly this way - they show a single card to show the table part of what they had, and push both cards forward. The dealer, if they weren't truly aware of what was happening (obvious from your description of events) likely only saw this motion and didn't inspect the card to see if it was a winner, because the player was acting like he lost (pushing the cards forward - one showing).
Once the dealer mucked the hand, without showing the other card, calling the floor or checking the tapes was not an option. The other player's hand was dead and you were the winner. It didn't matter that the single card showing would have made him the winner. He did not show the second card. He did not protect his hand. He lost. You won.
I am enjoying your trip. Keep up the commentray!
I assume the reason you were awarded the pot on the 2 9 hand is beacause he did in fact muck! He didnt expose both cards (which is required for a valid hand) and pushed his cards (mucked) to the dealer. His hand is dead at that point and you win! Sounds like she was a really bad dealer, but in this case she was totally correct in awarding you the pot! Good luck the rest of the trip....
I think I would have left that table and went played at the 2-5NL table with the money...Hell it was free money, might as well as well use it to paly at the next level, or you could have used it to play a sattelite for the Bellagio's $1000 weekly tourney.
you could have also went to Caesars Palace, Bellagio, or The Mirage and picked up a nice working girl sitting at the bar.
Interesting post. Odd way that played out at MGM...
@Tenesmus
Spot the "pro" is quite a fun game!!!
You do have to show both cards to be awarded the pot.
I'll bet that will be the last time the other player only shows 1 card.
i had the same happen to me at the mirage i slowed played a flopped 3 of a kind and a guy made runner runner flush on me, at show down he only showed his flush card dealer asked him twice to show the other card but he werent listening and i got shipped the pot only problem was it was for about $8 lol so i gave him his half back
Thats a crazy hand and I'll have to keep my eye out for that dealer at MGM next time I play there. The description doesn't ring a bell offhand. As far as the decision, technically it was correct however the dealer could have easily avoided the situation by paying attention. If the dealer paid attention she would have seen the 7 face up and requested that he turn the other card up in order to win the pot. But congrats on a lucky swing.
@ocean59
You shoulda INSTANTLY pushed the WINNER the pot....bad juju dude!
I disagree.
It is not his fault that the other person doesn't know the rules. I hate it when people try to just show one card. It is ridiculous. Are you that ashamed of the hand you played and won with? Are you afraid that you are giving away too much information? Believe me, there aren't that many people playing 1/2 that showing both cards to is going to make a difference.
We'll have to agree not to agree then.
I've folded winners twice in my short playing time but neither time did I show, so it's all on me!
The winner showed (albeit one card) and was obviously new to the game. Heck, he coulda thought he was doing right by turning over the "asked for 7" then pushing the cards forward. ANY player with time under his belt woulda screamed BLOODY MURDER at the table and that didn't reportedly happen. The dealer didn't control the action. Play shouldn't be rewarded because of this.
The winner shoudln't be penalized for this and the OP should be ashamed at not pushing the pot back. Taking down the pot on a technicality should taste like he threw up in his mouth then swallowed.
I agree with Stray. You should have shipped him the pot. I don't like winning on technicalities. It's Just Wrong.
Because the other player mucked after only showing one card, the dealer made the right call. A better dealer would have advised the player he needed to show both cards before they were mucked.
Nevertheless, I have no problem with OP keeping the pot. Sure it's an expensive lesson for the "mucker", but showing both cards to win a pot is standard procedure in live B&M poker, and I doubt he'll make that mistake again.
On the other hand, I have no problem with OP giving the pot to the "real" winner. It's his call and I wouldn't fault his decision either way.
It's nothing personal. It's just poker.
@allvegaspoker
Totally agreed!
You won the pot. You didn't cheat the guy. He played not bothering to learn the rules or abide by them. If he wants to gamble his money without knowing the game, that is his fault. This is not winning on a technicality. This is like a wide receiver catching a pass and running uncontested for the goal line, only to start celebrating too early, losing the grip on the ball, and it fumbles through the endzone ending in no score but giving the defense the ball. You have to finish the paly in any sport. Showing two cards is finishing it in a poker showdown.
When I sit down at the poker table, I am more than happy to play with "Gamblers" who don't want to bother learning the fine points of the game. Heck, how many times has a clueless person punished you by him making a stupid call and sucking out with some runner-runner miracle? It is the same thing. They don't care it is a bad play. They are gambling. I'm there to help them get their gambling entertainment - sometimes happy and sometimes painful, but hopefully it will be a memorable experience.
I bet you, that guy will always remember the time he blew a big pot because he wouldn't show both of his cards.
Bad Juju? I've never had a donkey return the money when their 64 offsuit runs down my AA because it was "bad Juju." When luck hits, sometimes it is bad, sometimes it is good. Don't spurn good luck.
HELL NO!!!! Keep the money. I'd give the dude a $20 at some point but shoot he messed up, don't reward stupidity.
Wow, thanks for all the responses! Didn't realize it was such a blanket rule to show both hole cards.
The guy had never played poker in Vegas before. He was of the belief that the best five cards won, and so only showed the card he felt was necessary to show to win the pot.
I was NOT ALLOWED to give this player any chips whatsoever. I asked the dealer immediately, and she said absolutely not, cannot give another player at the table any of my chips. She said I could however, give him cash. I only had a 20, and wasn't ready to cash out so I gave him the 20 which all the other players at the table respected. Several comments were made that most people wouldn't have even done that. And no way 2 hours later I'm going to cash out, find the guy, and pay him the money! Plus, I really had no idea what was going on - I was just as confused as the poor guy who lost.
The comment about moving up to 2/5 - I never thought of that. It is exactly what I should have done, and would have at least got me off that table.
I had a terribly interesting and mostly great day yesterday, but I can't write about most of it lol. I will post a followup now.
Thanks again!
Jason
@gowhitesox99
Don't reward stupidity. How about calling a straddle with nine duece? Or how about calling down a board of 772 with a nine duece?
From what I read I don't think the "Show only one card" was done to break the rules. I don't think he mucked the hand. I think the dealer mucked his hand.
If this was a tournament it might pose a problem getting him his money back. It was a cash game though. I don't think you would have gotten away with winning that pot in a home game with friends.
I hope that most of you are not at the table to make a buck at all cost.
OK, what a freakin day yesterday. It started rough, but then I magically acquired the Midas touch - everything turned to gold and I could not lose!
Started off around 5-6PM. Walked downtown - Totally packed, loud Johnny Cash cover band, and was totally not feeling the vibes there. Didn't even walk into a room, just caught a cab to the Venetian for some 1/2NL. But first I stopped to eat at Aqua Knox - very very excellent seafood restaurant inside the V. Recommended.
There were enough players on the waiting list to open a new table, where I got to meet IMO the best dealer I have seen to date. His name was Al, friendly black guy, and MAN was he QUICK! I mean, you could tell this guy really enjoyed his work, and pushed himself to be the absolute best he could possibly be. I think he was dealing nearly as fast as when I'm used to playing online!!! OK, maybe not quite that fast, but pretty darn close. Zero mistakes. He didn't deal me a single winning hand - but I still tipped him 2 dollars at the end for his super excellent service.
I bought in for $100, took a few small pots down at the beginning. Went card dead for an hour, got bored, and very intentionally gambled away my remaining $50 at the table. I was ready to go.
I figured, with all the chatter about TI it was time to pay the room a visit. When I got there, a tourney was in progress. It goes against my better instincts to buy into a tourney of that structure so late in the game (40 minutes in), but I wasn't feeling in the zone, and figured it would be cheaper to lose that 65 rather then buy into a cash game. I'm pretty sure I made the right call. survived past the break, and another level, and busted out. Staff was very friendly, but I had a heck of a time finding the room from the casino floor. Better signage is needed.
Now is where the story gets interesting. I don't really like slot machines, but was bored and stuck a $20 in one after busting out of the tourney. Turned it into $85 very quickly, and cashed out. I thought, let's go for it! So I developed a slot machine strategy - play as many machines as possible, don't get sucked into any one. I walked around TI trying to "feel" out the machines (goofy, huh?). But somehow - it worked! I varied from $75-$150 and played about 15 different machines in 20 minutes. Then I found the video blackjack - went from $150 to $60, then doubled up back to $120. Whew. But do I quit there? Noooo...I play another 10 machines as quickly as possible and still have about $95. I go to the gigantic Wheel of Fortune, paying 4.4 million right now, and 8 of the 9 open seats. I get to the 8th one, with only $45 left, and hit the wheel, which spins and lands on 1000X with max bet for $250. I cash out 10 minutes later for $288 on my $20, more then making up the poker losses. Blew my mind!
Walk around the strip, check out Harrahs - the place is totally packed, in fact every casino I went to was really hopping Wednesday night. totally bizarre, as no major conventions were in town and it being a weeknight and all. Yet the streets were still mostly empty. Harrahs has the same scary looking old guy crowd, and reallly bad karaoke or maybe even it was live music going on outside, but the hundreds there seemed to enjoy it. Kept on walkin.
I walk into Ballys - totally packed! Tons of action in the poker room, where I experienced my first bad beat of the trip. Bought in for $200 at a 1/2 table. I guess it was more of a combo suckout-bad beat. A lady to my left was in town for a convention, had been playing for hours, and getting beat down all night she said. It was time for bed she had been saying, and I slow played a two pair on the flop 6 8 off suit. After the turn, she says "I'm sure nobody has a piece of this" (6 players in) and goes all in for her last $45. Folds to me, I call. River brings me the boat, which I show, and she says "Well I guess the straight is no good then" and tried to muck. THIS dealer however noticed that she was trying to muck the highest paying straight flush on the screen, and pushed her cards back. She took the pot down, and a $600 jackpot, which she deserved. I figured after last's night action, I deserved that too lol.
No worries - a few slick moves later and I'm at $330. I cash out 30 minutes later for $275, and catch a cab to MGM. I figured as packed as the other places were, MGM should be juicy by now (a little past 1:30 AM). It was - young drunk people everywhere.
The Midas Touch continues - I sit down and buy in for $200. Within 10 minutes, I have taken down 5 consecutive pots and am sitting at $330. AA, J9 suited to straight, full house, top 2, you name it. Table was kind of in shock. The guy's friend was there - but he didn't recognize me as I was never pointed out to him the night before. I get up and walk away for a smoke, even tho I've just gotten there. And what do I do? Stick a 20 in a slot machine. A smaller wheel of fortune, a box that people had clearly been playing and losing at for some time. As they are walking away, they can hear on my first pull "WHEEL...OF...FORTUNE!!!" Hilarious. Immediately cashed out for the $85 prize I was awarded. When I got back my poker table was busted up, figured why keep playing? Took the money and ran.
All told I made ~$200 in poker, covering the days $165 losses, and about ~$340 in slots which I never normally play. I quit at 3 AM, and well, I can't really write much about the rest of the night - and trust me you probably don't really want to know. There was good and there was bad but in the end it was all good and it had none to do with poker. Let's just say I didn't fall asleep till 11AM and good times were had
9PM Thursday...on to tonight. Not sure what I'm going to do yet...hopefully keep up the disciplined approach to winning money lol!
@oneoutleft
Exactly - this was stupid play, and I was in no way expecting, nor trying to receive, a reward. I had no idea what was going on.
@oneoutleft
Nope, he exposed one card, and then pushed the cards in. Not his intention to muck, but he did. The dealer just completed the perceived action. Just like when a player tosses in a $5 chip and wants to raise, but doesn't say so, and the dealer says its a call. Or string bets as well. It was not my intention to take advantage of the situation either, but I had no say in the matter. Also, I didn't mention this before - the security floor guy Mark did actually review the tape, and he said it even appeared on the tape as if the guy was mucking the cards.
@oneoutleft
Of course not, but that has nothing to do with the conversation. Home games are much more friendly and understanding, as the players themselves are the dealers.
@oneoutleft
I am definitely there to make a buck, but not like that. I felt rotten about it! Not good at all! But it was explained repeatedly that I did nothing wrong, the OP did. And as I said - I was not allowed to make the situation right without going to extreme lengths I didn't think were justifiable at that point. It was just an honestly messed up situation, and I was as baffled as the rest of the table. I did what I could within reason to make it right - I would never, ever try to take advantage of a situation like that and ruin some poor guy's night. NEVER. That's just not who I am or what I stand for.
Just wanted to make that absolutely clear.
later all,
Jason
Nothing really worth reporting from last night.
Played downtown at the Fitz - eeked out 20 bucks, half locals half tourists
Moved onto Golden Nugget - Made $80, not too hard to do
Went to the Wynn - super mega rich people at the table I was at that could care less whether they won or lost, but most knew exactly what they were doing. Except for the one guy who was there to gamble - Watched over $1200 come from him at the 1/3 table I was seated at. Was able to grab a piece here and there, but not the major score I was looking for. Ended up $9 after 2 hours of grind.
Then I should've stopped playing, and I knew it. Was in a terrible mindset. But instead I went to MGM and blew the entire $300 in my pocket playing horrible poker. Also gave $80 back to the slot machines, stupid stupid stupid...
After the night I had last night, I should've known better then to stay up all night again drinking and playing in this mindset, hindsight, hindsight.
Sleep now, clear the head, will be back at it tomorrow.
I also know that you need to show both cards in order to win a pot. I think I learned that right here on AVP.
However, I recently read that during the recent tournament at Bellagio, the Tournament Director was convinved by Daniel Negreanu to put the Show One - Show Both rule to a vote and it was unanimously decided by the players and agreed by the Director not to apply it in the tournament.
That will be very interesting if this "new rule" gains wide acceptance, and then it will be a bunch of retraining for all the dealers to learn of the new rule that would not require you to show both cards in order to win the pot.
I personally do not like the rule and would like for it to be abolished.
I would also be for this rule change - if the games is about only having the best five cards period - how did the rule get started in the first place I wonder? It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me now that I've thought about it.
@ocean59
Dude, you seriously CANNOT LEAVE US HANGING. Just a little bit more, please? I want to live vicariously.....
If I'm not mistaken, the "Show One, Show Both" rule recently rescinded at Bellagio applied only after play was over and the pot awarded.
That is, if (for example) under "Show One, Show Both", a player mucked to a bet/raise and the winning player flashed an ace, winning player was required to show both cards, not just the one he/she tried to advertise.
This would not affect the "Show Both" rule at showdown.
FOREVERBAT
You are correct. The "Show One Show Both" at the Bellagio was for cards flashed when mucking cards, or for instance a player in a hand wanted to show one card to the table while live. In a showdown the Show Both Cards Rule still applied.
@ChicagoSteve
Dude, you seriously CANNOT LEAVE US HANGING. Just a little bit more, please? I want to live vicariously.....
[/quote]
Well, let's just say -- I'm a little embarrassed by some of it -- and there is only one person on the planet who gets to find out about that night...and that person isn't you.
Plus - I value my freedom too greatly to post any details on an internet forum. But let's say that I've decided to remain sober for the remainder of my trip (minus alcohol of course), and learned a few lessons in the course of the night. But still ended up having a great time.
Cheers,
Jason
@ocean59
Been there, done that, was embarrassed too...
@ocean59
I totally understand.
To quote that great German philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche:
What does not kill me, makes me stronger.
Sounds like you're stronger now....
LOL, thanks for understanding.
My actual strength gained came from taking my play to the next level late last night...stay tuned for part 3, as soon as the mod posts it. I finally learned how to project an image at the table, something I've been too honest to do in the past.
I've really enjoyed following your trip report.......next time though, just walk to the MGM from Ballys.