Lammers out for WSOP PLO and 27NL

General Discussion by pokervane Posted

According to Jack Effel's twitter due to feedback there will be no more lammers (i.e. chips that can be turned in at any time for additional stacks) for PLO and 27NL events this year.

If only we could get them to stop using lammers for SNG payouts.....


  1. Out of curiosity, what don't you like about them using lamers for SNG payouts at the WSOP? Is it that you have to sell them for cash if you don't intend to re-invest them? I wonder what would happen to the volume of SNGs played if they started paying out non-refundable and non-transferable entry tickets to WSOP events. I'm guessing their action would die by 1/2 at least. And similarly, what would happen if they started paying out cash?

  2. @JonFriedberg I think your assessment is pretty spot on. Many people grind the live SnGs for the hourly rate with no intention of playing any of the MTTs

  3. @JonFriedberg - I think the SNGs at the Series are very popular especially with skilled players due to the fact that they payout a very high percentage of your entry fee assuming of course you can sell the $500 chips that they pay you in (which is pretty easy to do at least early in the series). If I remember right, all of the Series SNGs with $275 or higher buy-in pay back something like 96% or better return. In addition many if not most players also almost always make last longer bets (100% return) at these SNGs. And I highly agree that if they only paid out in nonrefundable or non-transferable entry fees the volume of players would decrease dramatically.

  4. @JonFriedberg They actually do pay out non-refundable entry tickets (i.e. lammers). Whether they are nontransferable is a grey area since the rules don't say one way or the other. They don't actively prevent their transfer but they don't make it easy either. Something tells me if someone camped out in the hallway with a sign saying "Lammers Redeemed/Sold Here @ 95%/98%" they wouldn't be there very long.

    I don't like it because the prize pool minus the rake belongs to the players and the current practice opens up the possibility of the WSOP keeping the players' money (by having the lammers expire).

    There is no legitimate reason for this practice that I can think of. The fact that the WSOP labels these SNG's as "satellites" is not a legitimate reason IMO.

    Imagine if they did cash outs from the cash games in lammers. That would of course be ridiculous. But I don't think it's much different.

    All that said I would not have nearly as much of a problem with it if they didn't become worthless by expiring at the end of the series each year.

    If they paid out the SNG's in cash their action would increase significantly and not only would more rake be generated but the dealers that get stuck dealing them would do better as well.

    @fish169 The rake is closer to around 10% depending on buy-in.