3rd Trip of 09. TI dealer screws me (or does he...). Penn and Teller is awesome.
I arrived at the Flamingo Go room with 3 friends on Thursday and eat at In and Out burger, play and lose in blackjack at NY-NY and finally make it to the PH poker room. I make an awesome call w/ 96 when villain makes a 45 dollar bluff after the river w/ board showing A632J. Cash out up 100 or so and get a PH hat too. Pretty nice...looks like one of those New Era 5950 hats. I didn't even have a coupon, I just asked for it. Then I got the players card at PH and used the $25 match play and won. Woot woot. Woot woot woot.
Next day, I win $100 bucks playing WSOP Ultimate Texas Hold em at Flamingo. The game seems beatable. You bet $5 ante, get your hole cards, if you want to see the flop, call double the ante. You can check it down til the river or bet the turn and the river for the same amount of the ante. It seems beatable as long as you don't get really unlucky and lose more than 6-7 hands in a row. Unfortunately, that afternoon, I played again and lost the first 7 hands and $200, and in another 10 minutes, lose another $100.
Between the two sessions of Ultimate Texas Hold Em, I played in the 11am $65 tourney at T.I. with two friends. One plays well, the other is not a serious player. Me and the unserious player sit at the same table. He is under the gun on the first hand and says "check". I shake my in shame and embarrassment and tell him I can't take him anywhere. I double up early w/ AK vs 1010 when I catch a 10 on the river. I play aggressively, call a couple of short stack all in's and don't lose a coin toss, cruising to the final table. I have about 16,000 chips at 300-600 blinds. I look down at AJ spades, raise to 1400 in early position. Dealer raises to 2800. I call. Flop is 3 low cards, 2 spades. I push all in. Villain calls w/ AK clubs. I don't hit and am crippled. I linger around til after the 2nd break. There are 6 left. 3 big stacks and 3 short stacks. A short stack gets knocked out holding AA when big stack sucks out on him w/ 99. There are now 5 of us w/ top 4 getting paid. I ask the other short stack (we both have about 4000 chips w/ blinds at 500-1000) if he wants to chop 4th (and everyone hears including the dealer) and he says sure and nods. Next hand he goes all in w/ A9 and doubles up. Two hands later I'm in the BB and SB raises me all in, I look down and see AQ and call. Flop Jxx, turn Q, river J. I am out. Other short stack pretty much plays stupid and dealer tells me looks like he doesn't want to chop and that's the end of it. I think that is bullsh*t. Maybe I should have pursued it more instead of just asking and getting a "sure" as an answer. What do ya'll think? Well I lose it and hit him in the face, breaking his nose, and was arrested and taken to jail, where a group of large black men penetrate my anus. Just kidding. I finish on the bubble and go to my room and cry. I wake up still in tears and buy a handkerchief downstairs and go upstairs and cry more. I call my mom and cry more. Just kidding. I eat at Bellagio buffet to cure my anger and sadness.
That night I went to Pure and we get bottle service, drink glasses of Dom, dance with tall white girls, and get sloshed. We see Rafer Alston (of the Rockets). Afterwards I play video BJ at Caesars and win $300. I walk back to Flamingo and lose $100 at Ultimate Tx Hold em. I go to sleep.
Next day I play at Mirage. No notable hands and cash out up $77. Eat at In and Out again and polish off a double-double, a cheeseburger, animal fries, regular fries, and a soda. Feel so fat. Go to the room to nap, but did not nap. Instead an hour before Penn and Teller starts, we book tickets. If anyone wants to see an entertaining show, I highly recommend it. The only thing is since we booked so late, we sat in the 2nd to last row. It would be even better if we sat closer, but even that far back it was badass!!! After the show, Penn and Teller were both in the lobby signing autographs and taking pictures. Classy and nice guys!
Afterwards I go to PH and play one last session. After a couple hours of no cards, I finally get...drummmmmmrollllll...another hour of no cards. It was pretty frustrating especially with a superdonk playing next to me calling every preflop raise. I swear maybe each round he would fold once preflop. He would go from $200 to $400 to $500 back to $200. I finally look down at QA and raise $12. He calls immediately. Flop is Q high and I check and so does he. Turn is a J and I bet $14 and he calls. I knew he'd call any bet on the river. I push all in on the river with about $80 more and he calls after thinking for 10 seconds. He shows AJ and I double up. But it wouldn't be the same trip to PH if I didn't get sucked out a couple times on the river. (See previous trip report in late Feb/early Mar). I call a tilt call preflop of $20 with Q9 hearts. Flop is 995. Short stack checks, I check, superdonk bets $20. Shortstack pushes all in with $50ish and I push all in with $100ish. Superdonk calls. Turn is blank and river is a K. Shortstack shows KK. I cry some more. Later I limp in on the SB w/ K10. Flop is K35. Checks around. Turn is 10 and I bet $15. Short stack pushes all in w/ $37. 1 other call and I call. River is an A. Check Check. Short stack shows 24. I buy another handkerchief and have no more tears. I cash out up $4 and have won my cab fare to the airport the next day.
Totals for the trip:
Up some from poker.
Down some from blackjack.
Down some from roulette.
Down some from ultimate tx hold em.
I would gladly lose another few hundred for the amt of fun I had on this trip (knock on wood).
Until next time, Cheers.
The deaqler should have stopped this conversation as soon as it started. Your deal to chop fourth place is not acceptable. Al players must agree to a chop.
with 5 people left in a tourny, u cant agree to chop 4th place money, cant believe u even think that was allowed
@psand
The deaqler should have stopped this conversation as soon as it started. Your deal to chop fourth place is not acceptable. Al players must agree to a chop.[/quote]
ah! i did not know that. that's why i had the "or does he" in the title. thanks for clearing that up...good day!
I have not read all of Roberts rules but I dont think there is anything wrong with chopping with 1 person at the table. If the guy agreed to chop and didnt, you should have jacked him in the face!! That is a total DB move. Why not get something back when the odds are you are going to be going out 3/4. Just my 2cents,
T$
what happens if the short stacks agree to chop last place and then one of them rallies and takes down the tourney...does he have to chop 1st place with you???
I have no problem with negotiating a bubble save with the cooperation of the table, but you can't have 2 player at a table make an open deal when there are still other player in play in the tourney, everyone chops or no one does (you can add different amounts for people and such), but everyone has to agree to it or it doesn't happen.
The only time I could see a last/bubble chop is if they were both all in and covered and lost in the same hand, and then it would be them agreeing to something after they are eliminated.
what happens if the short stacks agree to chop last place and then one of them rallies and takes down the tourney...does he have to chop 1st place with you???
I have no problem with negotiating a bubble save with the cooperation of the table, but you can't have 2 player at a table make an open deal when there are still other player in play in the tourney, everyone chops or no one does (you can add different amounts for people and such), but everyone has to agree to it or it doesn't happen.
The only time I could see a last/bubble chop is if they were both all in and covered and lost in the same hand, and then it would be them agreeing to something after they are eliminated.
Minton (the Legend
I thought I read a post of yours requsting legendary status )
Maybe I should have posted my answer differently. I dont see anything wrong with the 2 short stacks agreeing to chop all winnings should their be anything beyond 3rd place and beyond. That being said, I am play tournaments on very very rare occasion as I am enjoy playing limit holdem. What are you thoughs on 2 short stack players agreeing to chop all winnings with 4 players left paying 3 spots?
if the short stacks can get the big stacks to agree to a chop at any time more power to them, but you shouldn't be having 2 players agreeing to a chop and 2 not, if there are 4 runners and 3 places are paid, I think the best option is to hope that the small stacks can talk the big stacks into a bubble save (everyone kicks a set amount out of their prize to give the person who bubbles their money back), or if you can negotiate a equity chop or chip chop (everyone gets X$ for each chip in play) but if all 4 players don't agree to a chop I don't thing the 2 short stacks should negotiate a side deal as it is more or less collusion, if they agree to chop whats to stop one short stack from dumping their chips to the other in hopes for more $???
Chopping is a very touchy issue and I have always gone with the all or none approach if someone objects and you can't come to terms...then no deal.
And as for legendary status, I am perfectly fine being one of the few Royal Flushes on the board...now if only I could get one in VP or at the table!!!
@gbky
Wow, posts on AVP sure have changed since I first started reading 3 years ago.
Some for the better (Grange, Yappy, SPPerry, etc)...some for the worse (see above TR)
On a related note, it is not unheard of for two (or more) players to trade percentages of each other's action. I was involved in a freeroll for a Main Event seat, and when we got down to the final table, there was a significant time lag before the final table was played. In the meantime, we negotiated a deal whereby the nine guys who didn't get the seat would get 3% of any winnings of whoever won the seat. The basic idea was to give everyone a rooting interest. We even circulated and signed a formal "Hedge Agreement". When the seat was won, we all offered help and encouragement to the winner (who was now "our horse"). He crashed and burned so there was no money to be divided but we all had a great time in the process. I've heard of pros trading percentages to essentially even out the cash flow fluctuations that are inevitable. there is some controversy when they are in the same event, because having an economic interest in a fellow competitor smacks of "collusion" or the risk of collusion. In fact, at out local casino any chop is viewed as collusion, but is done all the time so the casino employees have to feign ignorance. Anyhow, if "trading percentages" is viewed as acceptable when done before an event starts, is it any less acceptable once the event starts? What if a friend and I have equal stacks at the break and agree to trade 25%? Is that acceptable? unethical? does it matter how many runners remain in the event? does it matter if we are at the same table when the deal is struck? If trading percentages is acceptable in this setting, why can't two of the remaining four people "trade percentages" to the tune of 50%--i.e., splitting any winnings? I don't have any answers except to suggest that the idea of the guys who are currently third and fourth with three places paid agreeing to chop their winnings (which are then expected to be third place, but could be higher) is not necessarily as cut and dried as csuggested.
@MichMadDog
The there are many (including myself who belive any deals among people playing in the same tournament are nherently a problem).
Howevere even if you don't feel that way there is a significant difference between 1 your situation (where every player left in the tournament wasa a party to the agreement therefore there is no issue) or the situation where players entered into an agreement before the tournament began which has much less of a collusive feel to it at the time it is entered.
It is pretty cut and dry that with 4 players left in a tournament two fo then enteringinto a deal without the consent of the remaining players is collusive and wrong.