Poker newb low rollin' in Vegas, 6/17-6/22
I'm just back from a 5 day trip to Vegas with my brother. We stayed at the MGM Grand, but hit a number of casinos and played poker in 3 other rooms. For background, I'm 31 and a true novice to poker. Like most, I've always messed around with cards/poker, but I only started seriously studying and playing online about 3 or 4 months ago in anticipation of this trip. I read all three of Harrington's tourney books, as well as volume I in his cash games series. I also read "Small Stakes Hold 'Em" by Ed Miller and visited the forums at AVP and 2+2 pretty regularly. All that said, I only had the chance to play live once before the trip, so I'm a total newb! I've only outlined my poker experiences below, although we did a lot more than that (UFC fights, many nightclubs, Carrot Top, Fantasy, lots of other random gambling). Let me know if you want to hear about any of that stuff.
>TREASURE ISLAND TOURNEYThe structure, like most cheap tourneys, really makes you play fast. 20 min levels and only 3,500 chips.
>Re-buys are allowed for the first hour (I think...could have been two levels), and about 5 people did just that during my time there.
>Although I didn't drink, service was good during the tourney. TI is a small room, and the waitress came by often.
>FLAMINGO LIMIT CASH GAMEThe room is decent-sized, although pretty fugly and not really separated from the rest of the casino all that much. They had a few cash games going on, but the room was mainly being dominated by a tourney they were running. There was no "big board" showing games going on...it looked like the guy at the podium just kept a list.
>BILL'S SATURDAY 11:30am TOURNEYThis structure is truly horrible at 3,000 chips and 15 minute levels, with a couple of huge level jumps in there as well. You really have to push your cards hard, which again, is tough for me and not in my nature.
>The tourney is really not run all that well. The dealers are *shaky* at best, and the manager doesn't really keep a close enough eye on them. There were about 5 misdeals during the two times I played this tourney (another time below), and at one point the two tables were playing at drastically different blind levels.
>Good drink service...a couple different waitresses kept a good eye on people and kept the drinks coming.
>The "room" isn't really a "room," but rather an area in the casino with three poker tables set up. Tough environment in which to play, but not all that different from a few casinos I saw.
>BILL's 2:30 PM TOURNEYMGM CASH GAMESWe both loved playing at MGM. They always had a ton of games going on, whether it was the middle of the day or 3:00 am.
>The room is huge and comfortable. TV's within view from basically everywhere, and a big, smoke-free area away from most of the casino floor.
>Things are organized and well-run. The lists are displayed on monitors throughout the room, and announcements can clearly be heard throughout the room. They track play for comps electronically at the table.
>The ONLY thing I'll say negative about the room is that the drink service absolutely SUCKED in the late night games we played. Honestly, every player at the table agreed on more than one occasion that the waitresses were mostly inattentive and rude.
The play was pretty typical for the rooms I saw in Vegas. We both made money in a couple limit sessions, but faced some poor play and got sucked-out on the "beginner's" game. Ironically, both of our bad beats involved getting KK cracked, him by a buy holding Q5o and tripping his 5 on the river (ouch) and me by a guy holding Axo and hitting a flush when the board brought four more (I had been holding the Kh in my pair, so decided to call down his AI on the river, although I was pretty confident he had been drawing to the flush). We both re-bought and slowly built up our stacks, but not enough to overcome the almost AI bets. All in all though, we both really enjoyed the MGM and would definitely stay there again!
Well, that's all folks! Thanks for reading!
Hey, great trip report! Thanks for taking the time to submit it, I enjoyed reading through. Makes me get the itch to get back to LV.
Yes, especially the other random gambling - also, what's your VP game? JoB? I had an impossible time finding full pay VP on the strip in Vegas. I love VP when I need something "mindless".
You should mind - from what I read, your strategy is pure NL. Limit is more a drawing hand kind of game and requires lots of adjustments for the reasons you cited. You know this already, but there are lots of good books to get you started on strategy adjustments. By the way, overall your strategy is pretty by the book, which isn't bad but remember everyone has read those books so you need to know the implications of what you're "supposed" to do and figure out what you think is most profitable. Examples: c-betting both times with AK or always raising PF with AKo (vary your play); calling with K-high flush when you made an accurate read (trust your read, you clearly have good instincts considering you'd only played live a little at that point).
And the casino is barely a casino.
I actually like playing there, however. Easy money, usually folks having fun. I get made fun of for this.
Totally agree. I don't know another room where you can see lions while playing poker!
I do have one recommendation you may already have covered. You played at a lot of different casinos with various ownership and therefore comps programs. Pick an ownership group for comps, get your player's card (I bet you have several after that trip, but pick ONE) and stick to it - if you can get enough points your next stay could be free...which you CAN do in one visit especially if you're playing VP and "random gambling" as you put it. Good luck.
I enjoyed your post.
My question would be...........regarding the books you have read, do you recommend them? Or perhaps one in particular? I always thought about reading these books but since I do not take my poker play all that seriously, I never made the investment. Appreciate your thoughts/reviews on this topic and what one piece of information one of the books gave to you that you feel was truly important.
Thanks alot!
Hi, thx for the report. My only suggestion (not that you asked) is that if your playing with family or friends, dont soft play. Treat them like anyone else at the table. Its not fair to the other players first of all, and second poker is way more fun when you play to win.
Nice report - A suggestion for your style of play is pay a little more, and get into a deeper stacked tournament. This type of tournament is much more suited to your TAG style of play.
DeadHandPoker
Thanks! I really appreciate folks reading and replying. I kinda thought I'd be typing this TR to/for myself, but I'm glad it got some interest!
I only play JoB. I never found a full pay machine at $0.25 on the strip, but they were readily available at $1+. Ellis Island was the closest to the strip as far as low-limit full pay that I saw...and I generally check at every casino I walk into. I really can't bring myself to play anything below 9/6 unless it's on house freeplay, so I didn't play as much VP this trip as in the past (when I've spent more time on Fremont). As for other thoughts on the trip:
>Other Random Gambling: We both like blackjack (and know/follow basic strategy), so we did play 3 or 4 decent sessions. The best place we played was Tropicana. We went over there around 1:30am one night and found a $5 table with pretty favorable rules (3:2, DAS, etc). Disadvantages to that game are continuous shuffle and dealer hits s17. Ellis Island was also fine as far as rules go, but I got killed there so tend to remember it less fondly!
We like craps as well, but only got the chance to play once. We literally spent about 10 minutes at a $5 table at Fitzgerald's before we both lost our buy-in and hightailed it outta there. My brother (a bit looser with his cash) also plays drunk slots and roulette (which actually paid off on this trip, amazingly!), so we did spend time playing stuff besides poker.
>Carrot Top was freaking hilarious! We weren't sure what to expect, but since we got a great deal (half off), we decided to give it a go...and are glad we did. We both agreed we'd go back anytime, as he had us in stitches literally the entire show. Highly recommended.
>Fantasy was OK as far as girly-shows go. Nothing too exciting, and honestly the best part of the show was the singer/comedian they bring on to fill gaps during scene/set changes. That guy was hilarious and talented.
Yeah, I definitely know you're right. My inexperience combined with the allure of the low stakes really lured me into those 2/4 games. I definitely should have passed, as I didn't have much fun at those games.
Thanks for the suggestions (and compliment)...I definitely need to get better at varying my play. The vast majority of my experience is in books and online, so I'm almost in automatic mode at a live table. Thanks again...
Great point! My brother and I were kicking ourselves for not doing that (and not checking in on comps, etc before we left). Our poker plus other gambling (especially his drunk gambling!) could lead to free stuff, I suppose! Good suggestion for next time...
bigdom329
I definitely recommend the Harrington tournament series. I think most players would tell you that it's the Bible when it comes to tight/aggressive tournament play, so you can't really go wrong reading it. As far as advice goes, here are the main points which helped me: 1) only play quality starting hands (and this is relative to your position. Under the gun, Harrington might only raise 5 or 6 hands regularly...he's that tight, and it works). 2) understand your position in the tournament relative to stack size, blinds, # of players remaining, etc. You need to know when to start shoving it all-in and with what cards it's worth taking that risk. You have to steal the blinds often in the middle stages of a tournament, otherwise you won't have any kind of stack to work with when it's crunch time.
meekamouse
You're absolutely right about this. It was painful for me to both lay down AND to shove into my brother's blinds...but yeah, it was a bad move. Thanks for reading and replying! I appreciate it!
scitchr888
Thanks for the suggestion. You're definitely right! Being such a noob, I guess I was "scared" on some level to put up much more than $50 or so on each tourney. That said, you're absolutely right--something like the $100 at Binion's, the $70 at Hard Rock, the CP tourneys, etc would be much better for me. I'm definitely going to follow that advice the next time I'm out there.
Thx for the trip report. Although you might be a noob! in actual amount of times you've played live, you're real experience via studying prob makes up for it. Next time save up to do one of the Aria or Caesar deeper stack tourneys. Also, play more cash games. If you have a tight style it will fit. the game is different from online. in fact $1/$2 live is more like .25/.50 or less online (you prob know this). Bluff less... value bet more. don't cbet as often when you miss unless you know the player is weak. make your value bets higher than your cbets (not enough people notice). Price out those draws and be happy when they call (and yes they will beat you sometimes).
Someone else mentioned books. Harrington's books are excellent and great reads. However, there is one major problem with his advice. the audience! His books are designed to tell you how to play against GOOD opponents. Reality is at cheap tournaments and $1/$2 cash games you generally are NOT facing GOOD opponents. There is absolutely no reason to glance at your wristwatch and then decide it is the time to make a random play against the norm (like limping with AA in late position after 4 people have called). Until you find proof that someone has figured out your style just make the standard play! Value bet! Value bet! Don't bluff that often. Don't play too many hands! On the other hand, his books are great to read. I really enjoy them. They just don't fit as well for your normal $1/$2 game. If you follow Harrington's books don't randomize your play UNLESS you know someone is paying attention.
On that note, I suggest Ed Miller's cash game book as a better starter. It will be more relevant.