Should I have gotten involved in this 1-2 PLO Hand?
The game is 1-2 PLO at my local casino. There is virtually no limping pre-flop. A variety of players usually make it $15-$25. The action is at least 5 way on most flops. The guy to my right is terrible - values hands like a holdem player - raises liberally - calls too much - shows down some pretty awful losing hands. He is into the game for many many hundreds of dollars with his stack going up and down continuously.
I had been hovering right around even for a couple hours. Then I was all-in after the flop in a multi-player pot with A ♣ A ♦ J ♣ : 10 ♠ : I flopped the nut flush draw to go with my AA. Unfortunately, someone else flops a set of jacks, so I only win the side pot which is about $250.
For my final hand, I have about $220. I am under the gun with 4 ♠ 5 ♣ 6 ♣ 6 ♥ I limp for $5. There are at least 6 callers to the big blind who is the terrible player to my right. He makes it $25. I call and so does everyone else. The small blind only has $150 left and now goes all-in. Terrible guy goes all-in for more. I go all-in. Two other players go all in. The board is 6 ♠ K ♣ 10 ♥ 3 ♦ 10 ♦ Although I have a full house, I will lose to a player who has a 10-3 in his hand. (Terrible guy is busted and leaves the table)
I have been told that I never should have been in this hand. What do others think?
The short answer is NO, you should not have been involved in that hand at all.
I'm by no means a PLO expert, but in a game where there is often a raise to $15-25 and the action is often 5 ways to most flops, it would seem like you need a really big hand to win most pots. So, you should be playing big pairs and big suited cards -- cards that can make really strong or nut hands like nut straights, nut flushes, and big full houses. In other words, hands like your AAJ10 hand.
In this instance, you have a pair of 6s with low straight and flush draws, unless you make quads, or a straight flush, you are drawing to small straights, small flushes, and low full houses -- sixes full of something. Those are almost certainly going to be the second best hand in a multiway pot. So, your hand is probably only barely playable if it is folded to you on the button. But, you weren't on the button. You said the big blind was immediately on your right, which means you were under the gun and in terrible position. You had no idea when you initially limped how many players will be involved and how many raises it will be before the flop.
You should not have even limped with that hand from under the gun. You compounded that error by calling a small raise after at least 5 players limped into the pot behind you, which means you were likely going to go multiway to a flop, unless there was a re-raise behind you. Then, there was a 3 bet shove and a 4 bet overshove. That was the perfect opportunity for you to get away from your mistakes with a small $25 loss. But, you once again compounded your error by calling off your remaining stack -- when the pot was going to be at least 3 ways since there were already 2 all-ins in front of you and the pot was laying good odds to players with big drawing hands behind you. That is basically asking to go broke.
Dave
completely agree with Dap and ZZ, I might try to limp preflop IF and only if, some limpers were allowed to go to the flop, if its always a raise, I would just fold there. once it gets back around to you, you have to be thinking that people behind you could raise again or go all in, so why throw away another 19. this is basically a pure position play.
good luck!
@zzjitterzz - I think the table dynamics (mostly raised pots and multiple players in post-flop), combined with the fact that the original poster was UTG, make this a clear fold preflop. The likelihood that we are going to see a cheap flop is low. Even if we do see a cheap flop, we are out of position, probably to multiple opponents, making our hand fairly difficult to play. And we have cards that will make a lot of hands (low straights and low flushes) that will often be second best in a multiway pot.
The bad position and likelihood that we will make a vulnerable hand mean that we are going to have a lot of trouble getting maximum value from our winning hands. It's also going to be tough to bet big to protect our made hands against draws -- particularly since our made hands are weak (excepting miracles like quad sixes or a straight flush). Furthermore, flopping weak made hands means that we will have to fold when there is a lot of action on the flop, since we won't know whether our opponent has a big combination draw, a combination of a weaker made hand plus a draw (e.g. a set plus a draw when we flop a straight), or a better made hand than we do (e.g., a bigger straight or bigger flush).
In short, limping here (even if we see a flop cheaply) is going to put us in a lot of tough spots post-flop. So, I say keep it simple, fold and look for better opportunities.
Dave
OK. I admit I played badly...I hate it when my husband is right....I usually am very picky about hand selection in early position. I think the AA hand really got to me as the player who flopped a set of jacks was a very conservative player who knew what I had when re-raised pre-flop. He shouldn't have been in the hand but it paid off for him.
@ladydibari the biggest issue with that is when you become predictable, you might as well play your cards face up. and here in lies the problem, he knew that you had a better hand and that if he hit his hand he could stack you off. if you are going to get married to a hand then its best to get married pre-flop and put it all in then, then they have to make the choice for their stack from behind instead of you being behind and making the decision. its not important how the hand turns out AFTER you make your play, only what it was WHEN you made your play.
good luck!