Phil Ivey Sued by Borgata for 10 million
So is Phil Ivey a total fraud? From this article based on court filings, it sounds like after he stashed all of his full tilt money in Mexico banks and then Black Friday hit, he went on a tear frauding casinos with a hot girl that has good eyes. I have lost all respect for him. Let's see how many other casinos come forward too.
yes, a total fraud IMO
I don't think his nine bracelets were a fraud.
His poker playing is obv the real deal. His morals in dealings with casinos can be questioned, but it can be debated whether taking advantage of a casino flaw is technically "cheating."
Personally I don't know which way I feel about it.
Let me state an example. There are two slot machines called Ducks in a Row in a small casino in Mississippi. The casino has two gaming floors and one of these machines on each floor. The one on the bottom floor functions 100% normally. It only enters the bonus when three "Ducks in a Row" symbols show up on a payline in columns 1, 2, and 3. Now, the machine on the second floor is a little different. Like the one on the first floor, it enters the bonus when three "Ducks in a Row" symbols line up in columns 1-3, but it also randomly enters the bonus from time to time after a losing spin.
Assuming I know this it would be smart for me to only play the machine on floor two. But is that wrong? Immoral? Should I report this flaw in favor of the player to a slot tech?
I guess that's for each of us to decide but I just wanted to give an example of Iveys situation in a light that we may be able to understand better.
Doesn't a major portion, if not all of the responsibility lie with the card manufacturer? Their production and ultimate approval of defective cards is what provided Ivey the opportunity. While I realize this was a lot of money and he did have an unfair advantage, legally, you have to consider that had it not been for the manufacturer's negligence, the casino would have never been in a position to suffer this kind of loss. Its very possible many other smaller stakes players took this same opportunity and had it not been for the large amount of money won by Ivey over a considerable period of time (7 months allegedly), they may well have continued to take this advantage, amassing a similar monetary loss to the casino, but over a much longer period of time. What does the casino do then, sue every individual patron that had an unfair advantage for their money back? After all, Borgata brings in an average of $45 to $55 million in revenue per month! What's 10 lol.
I think you may be cutting Ivey a bit too much slack.
If you read the reports and if they are accurate, he didn't just take advantage of an issue with the cards he discovered. He took great pains to set everything up so he could take the casino for big bucks.
He had requests for certain dealers, for handling the cards a certain way, etc., all to make it easier for him to cheat.
He's innocent until proven guilty of course. But it sounds to me like what he did was not really a close call.
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Sounds like cheating--and stealing--to me.
@Rob He's actually neither guilty nor innocent. He is being sued civilly--not prosecuted criminally.
@pokervane Thanks for the correction. Of course, in a civil case, the burden of proof is a lot lower than in a criminal proceeding.
Interesting perspectives. I'm with Jamie and actually wonder if the card manufacture was in on it. But I think Ivey is just another hustler looking for an easy million (or 10) without regard for law or morale
If you read all of the articles out there you see that There is no law specifically against edge sorting.
The bigger question is if he violated casino rules that people are legally obligated to follow. Even more important is if there is truth to the allegations/suggestions that he might have colluded with the dealers or even the card manufacture. I personally believe this is unlikely but this is where the real black and white issue of outright cheating lies.
If this can not be proven, than the casinos holding back payment are even bigger thieves than Ivey is accused of being.
We all know that Poker is a game of skill but most of the rest of the casino earnings are from games that pray on people lack of understanding of statistics. If they can make a fortune on this I really do not have a problem with someone smart smacking them around for making a stupid mistake.
@Rag mana I win at poker by praying on people's lack of understanding of statistics.